85gr hammer inside of a creed past yr which was a bang flop slide down hill, zero blood and really compact holes. That was 3430fps, I have a load to the prc at 3700fps. @Ucsdryder will almost certainly have his daughter use that bullet this yr for deer so we https://17-hmr-bulk-ammo04542.idblogz.com/27578950/a-secret-weapon-for-drt-terminal-shock